Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
413
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Posted - 2014.02.24 03:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Forge Guns versus Dropships: seem fine for the most part. Tiers are a bit busted, since only Assaults are good or a full stacked up Breach. Standard Forge Guns need some work in general, though not because of specifically Dropships.
Swarms versus Dropships: they do somewhat below acceptable damage, depending on the situation (Proto Swarms can do serious damage, the main point of contention is Hardeners making them all but useless) but the biggest factor here is the knockback effect, which is enormous and is an incredible wildcard: sometimes the Swarms can circle you and hit you from a completely random angle to catapult you into something.
Plasma Cannons versus...anything: Haha, that's a good joke. PLC's need a lot of work.
Large Blaster turrets: work. When they catch a Dropship in their engagement zone, they will rip enormous chunks out of them. Their main 'issue' is that they cannot apply damage as fast as a Railgun, but from an ADS perspective they are still incredibly dangerous weapons.
Large Missile turrets: if it gets the drop/angle on a Dropship it can volley them out of the sky as effectively as it does against HAVs, but the stumbling block for these is the elevation angle. If we increase the angle, perhaps Missiles would be more capable in the anti-air role: which is something their blurb actually says they're supposed to be good for.
Large Railgun turrets: Duh. They have incredible range, power, speed and no noticeable downsides. The most basic Railguns can down even the toughest Dropships within a single overheat and the most powerful can almost kill the toughest in a single hit. Reduction of fire rate, elevation angle and/or range would bring this more in line with other AV. Even with a slight range reduction, they would still maintain an enormous presence on the sky but add an elevation reduction and the Railgun becomes more vulnerable to aerial assault: combine this with a Missile turret elevation buff and you have something vaguely resembling balance!
I'm sure there's more...but I'm sleepy! |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
415
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 17:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Chuckles Brown wrote:Sorry, but you can't reduce the damage or firerate of Railguns in this game with AV in the current state its in.
There seems to be a complete lack of reading comprehension among forumites. I don't know why I'm surprised...
What I was suggesting was several small changes intended to be put into effect together that would bring us closer to balance: I'm not claiming to be all-knowing or anything, but I don't think my suggested changes are unreasonable when you consider them together.
Chuckles Brown wrote:What are we supposed to do, just let tanks and ADSes have total control of the match and let them kill us over, and over?
I know that's what the VAST MAJORITY of vehicle users want, but its bullsh*t and they know it.
Stop trolling. There is a vocal minority that want vehicles to be stupidly powerful, but there is also a fairly substantial amount of vehicle users that want vehicle/AV balance: Attim, Judge Rhadamanthus, True Adamance are all examples of good balance-mongers.
Stop with the hyperbole: it doesn't help in any way.
Chuckles Brown wrote:In a vehicle, you get to be a one man wrecking crew. So you shouldn't get upset when someone decides to fight back.
I am assuming this post is directed at me, considering the initial statements and I will counter accordingly: I understand that, and I agree. I am, I feel, a veteran ADS pilot and I have suffered through the 1.6 phase of being swatted out of the sky thoughtlessly by every Swarm user to accidentally fire in my general vicinity. That being said, I also dislike the current state of vehicle/AV 'balance' because of the capacity for one-man wrecking crews, of which the biggest culprit is militia HAVs.
I'm not denying that ADSs are powerful in the right hands, but they are so much more skill intensive (SP and personally) while still being vulnerable to AV (FGs, all Large turrets, even Swarms are dangerous in the right way) that the risk/reward balance is massively skewed towards the risk end of the spectrum.
Personally, I feel that AV needs a slight buff on the whole (as you can see if you re-read my previous post) while the Large Railgun needs a series of small nerfs to make it powerful but not the all-powerful turrets they are - and to compensate for that we need a variety of options to be equally viable.
Chuckles Brown wrote:Until AV is brought back to a reasonable level, railguns need to stay. People are getting decimated by vehicles in 1.7, without rails, nothing would stop it because AV is an unbalanced joke and new players don't even have access to it.
Agreed! But that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss how to balance AV on the whole. Take as a whole, the Large Railgun is overpowered: so are vehicles due to the majority of AV (ie, Swarm Launchers) being so nerfed in power in 1.7. But just because Railguns are one of the only things keeping HAV-spam in check (and even then I'd argue that it's not checking it, it's fighting fire with fire) that doesn't mean they are balanced.
Again, if you'll re-read my previous post, I suggested multiple changes to multiple things that I believe would bring a bit more harmony to the V/AV balance. Perhaps you could look at everything I suggested together instead of merely focusing on a single point in a vacuum?
Chuckles Brown wrote:Vehicle users are making insane amounts of ISK and getting a KDR boost, butr that's not good enough, they want more. They can't accept it when a player figures out a way to outplay them.
Its no different than someone b*tching about a Heavy with a Rail Rifle.
Stop being so hyperbolic. "Vehicle users" is such a ridiculously over-generalised term. The most cheaply fitted Assault Dropship (assuming everything is Militia BPOs beside the gun) will still cost over 300,000 ISK: more than a single match payout will net you. While ADSs do not always get shot down, if it is fitted even vaguely right (ie, using modules that you can use with effectiveness, so higher tier survivability modules) you will in all likelihood be looking at multiple games of ISK negativity from a single lost ADS.
Please note that I do not think this is, overall, a bad thing. The issue that I have, and many others share, is that our risking of such an insane amount of ISK (comfortably the most expensive profession in DUST) nets us equivalent payouts to everyone else (which, again, is fine) but has such a stupidly easy counter in the Large Railgun which swats ADSs out of the sky like it's going out of style.
The big issue is that we have one obviously effective weapon that is the AV weapon of choice due to several factors that make other AV, for the most part, ineffective at dealing with what the battlefield throws at them. The solution is not tweaks to a single weapon, like you seem to think people are suggesting, but to multiple at once, as my previous post suggests.
Again, perhaps you can re-read it and comment without diving into a sea hyperbole when a single weapon is mentioned.
As far as SP is concerned it sucks when the zero SP that someone spent on that Large Railgun and Sica entirely invalidates the multiple millions of SP that you spent to get access to the equipment you want to use. ADSs are powerful when used properly, yes, but they require and investment of SP and skill like no other specialisation does: this does not mean that ADS pilots want to be all-powerful and far from it, in fact. But it does mean that the counters to such a skill intensive role should not be so insanely easy to access and with such power without even a tiny investment of SP or skill. Having resorted to using Large Railguns when my ADS is useless (ie, when they have a million Railguns) I am well aware of the nuances of the Large Railgun: and it requires nothing like a fraction of the skill required to successfully fly an ADS. |